Unsound Doctrine

This is a brief Warning to those who link to a site called: Sound Doctrine

Sound Doctrine website is connected to a “member” of  ACT (Apologetics Coordination Team). It is my belief that those who are members of the ACT are members of the “Network” of “False Discerners,” those who appear to warn however have means to counter their own warning via their network friends who then endorse the same people their fellow network friends are “warning of.” Tricky I know, but follow the process for one second.

Member of ACT- Michael (name slightly changed) Michael has a site and warns about Chuck Missler, he even uses N4TM and others as site sources for “his” material that he claims he is warning people of.

Michael, has links on his page to this group: Sound Doctrine. Sound Doctrine endorses Chuck Missler (among other false discerners).

I am warning my readers right now that just because someone uses my site as a source does not imply that I knew of it, nor am I endorsing their site, especially since as of today I’m publicly saying I do not endorse ANY member of ACT. In fact this post is going a step further and warning all my readers who invest their time and energy listening to ANY member of ACT and take them as people who are ‘for’ the church body. This is a big sweeping statement, but I see a lot of DOUBLE SPEAK going on within those members and until they completely separate themselves from the fake group, I cannot vow for any of them. Some members have been following my blog for a very long time. I believe their are leaking my posts to outside sources who then do similar posts, with a slight twist so it appears it’s their own post. This action gives them further “appearance” of being “warners,” when in fact they are continuing to twist the truth.

Click On Thumbnail of full list of “Sound Doctrine’s” speaker list whom they endorse.

If you do not know who the “Members” of ACT are look for this logo near their link on this page which is the main page of ACT where they list their Members and “friends.”

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/page4.html

**sadly the list on ACT is not all of those who are a part of the false discernment network…**

*Update* This particular post has not seen any action in a year, however that did not stop Miguel Hayworth from forming his own post about my post. I don’t know when he wrote it because I never go to his site. Today, March 21, 2013 I was Googling myself and cam across his STIFF warning about me to his “readers.” Good for you FPA, I hope you feel better. I saw the comment threat on DTW and see you made some friends who don’t like me so maybe that made you feel a little empowered. I don’t trust you, so I’m not going to “contact” you over my concerns with you and this post will sit here and collect dust, because frankly no one cares. People don’t care that there are fake discernment groups issuing warnings about some bad guys but not all bad guys. There’s still a market for your friends at ACT. Thanks for warning people about me, I try to tell them too, “don’t listen to me test this stuff for yourself.” Maybe now they will.

About these ads

30 comments

  1. That’s a whos-who of teachers with very questionable doctrines.

    Just for a couple examples:

    Ray Comfort and John MacArthur, both teach the lordship salvation false gospel that can’t save.

    Jacob Prasch gets dangerously close to endorsing Talmud-type errors with his Hebrew roots doctrines. He also teaches that you can lose salvation, and if you show him that he is wrong about that, he will get very angry.

    1. Did you look at the link that had the full list of “network” employees? That’s the main list, you know plenty names there I’m sure.

    1. Don’t tell me how to run my site. I did not say ACT promotes the site Sound Doctrine, I said a member of ACT promotes the site Sound Doctrine and that I do not trust ACT and your network of false discernment types. You have been exposed for presenting false arguments, using one ACT member to “expose” someone example, Chuck Missler, and using other “members” or affiliates to promote him, sometimes one in the same.
      Also, the members of ACT all have endorsed similar people that Sound Doctrine has so what’s the hub ub about over it! You might want to spend some considerable time on your links page checking whom your members endorse. But please don’t bother doing that for me or my readers here, we already know that you only correct your stuff once you’ve been found out.

      1. I can “tell you how to run your site” if you are posting false information about my ministry. Am I not allowed to defend myself? You need to stop attacking legitimate biblical ministries.

      2. This will be my last reply on this silly subject. Here is what you said about ACT that was false: “Sound Doctrine website is connected to a “member” of ACT (Apologetics Coordination Team). It is my belief that those who are members of the ACT are members of the “Network” of “False Discerners …” This is abject foolishness. I already stated I am not part of or connected to this “Sound Doctrine” ministries. Please post a retraction of this false information. If people want to be aware of what we are doing, which represents all the good biblical discernment ministries out there today, visit the site to get informed here:

        (link Removed)

        Don’t take the word of people who don’t know about me or the ministry and are obviously out to cause division.

      3. I am not going to retract stating that I believe you are a group of false discerners. I never said that “ACT” endorsed Sound Doctrine site, I did say one of your “ACT Members” specifically Miguel Hayworth who is listed as a member on your link, DeceptionintheChurch website (not endorsed by N4TM) endorsed and linked to the site “Sound Doctrine.” BTW if you’re reading the comments you’ll see he’s already played cover up and removed the link. You can be angry and upset and call my statements foolishness but this is not something you can change. I am saying that MANY of the members of “ACT” are already promoting some of the very same names that Sound Doctrine advocates and endorses and this is NOT ever going to be retracted by me. I advise you to check yourself, and your “Members” and whom they endorse. You seem to be very upset because I simply stated the obvious. There’s much to be stated in that same vain, much of what your “group” does is quite obvious and I think more and more people are discovering this to be truth, not foolishness. To be perfectly clear as to the names/members of your group that are of deep concern to me I will be editing my post and including the full list with my own annotations if that would help you (but I think this will only cause you more grief since you and your network bank on people’s ignorance).

  2. You should have contacted me first before you have gone to the trouble of publishing an article to get accurate information

    I believe it is good that you are watching and checking me out as I encourage every one to do, as this helps me also, as a practice in first Plumbline we always try to contact individuals or concerned parties before we publish articles and where we are wrong we make corrections, you also need to place a check on your self in this area as it is always better to contact individuals and for me if I did not respond to your e-mail by all means write me off.

    But this has not been the case as you have not made an attempt to contact me

    If you read on the links page

    It’s very important that you clearly understand that the inclusion of any link from anywhere within the First Plumbline Apologetics web site does not necessarily imply our endorsement of that ministry, resource, or organization featured regarding anything that it does or teaches. The only endorsement that is worthwhile is that which is in alignment with biblical truth. It’s our position that we can agree or disagree with you, you can agree or disagree with us, but only so far as it agrees or disagrees with God’s Word.

    Whilst recognizing the good fruit from these linked sites, —->we cannot vouch for their every belief. As with all things in this world, the onus is upon you to check out each site and to exercise spiritual discretion,If you spot any link within this links page that is ecumenical, anti-Israel or in error please don’t hesitate to let us know…<—————-

    This article on your blog gives the impression that I promote "Calvinism (Ray Comfort, John MacArthur, Jerry Vines)," defently not Ray Comfort is one big compromiser who through his distribution website promotes Joni Erikson Tada though it is tragic what happened to her she is an ecumenist amongst other heretics listed, Ray has participation also with those who promote and participate with Kenneth Copeland the read of my expose of Comfort can be found here (link removed) I am very annoyed with Ray he did not answer my e-mails concerning his WOF friends, John MacArthur, he is not promoted by me the major problem is he preaching Lordship Salvation, this is legalism, I view as a erroneous teaching that teaches you can be judge, jury and executioner over someones salvation but I don't promote these Calvinists, Jerry Vines I don't believe I have come across him to my knowledge or recollection, I am not a Calvinist their are many who are from the UPC United Protestant Council organisation who have spoken out against me both in private and in public and they even had a public meeting about me without me being present because "I am not a Calvinist" so much for their friends who are so called Christians and some of them are Orange Order, Purple and Black Lodge members one of these is Malcolm Williamson, the person in Northern Ireland since the indecent with David Carson chairman for the UPC has spread nasty false roomers about me he has ordered all UPC members to keep away from me, I am defiantly not a favorite of theirs 1) because definitely I am not a Calvinist 2) I am not a KJV onlyist as I use bibles published earlier then the KJV 1611.

    As for me I will be forthright, honest and transparent with you I can speak to moderates but I cannot stand hard line Calvinism for its self-righteous attitude and I definitely cannot stand hyper-Calvinism, in addition to this I had been invited to write one article on the Salvation Army and freemasonry for the English Churchman newspaper just on this issue.

    As far as I am aware the calvinists are not happy that I published my brothers article refuting the calvinist stance on predestination, and so I am labeled an Armenian, even though I cannot accept the 5 points of Armenianism as I cannot accept the 5 points of Calvinism that I find creates and elitist club and also I reject the sinners prayer, so because of this the Arminians call me a Calvinist this is an insult to Calvinists as they hate me, I definitely see palagian teaching a heresy but i am outside all 3 camps.

    and Latter Rain (Chuck Missler)

    Chuck Missler is a dominionist compromiser I had written my first article yesterday exposing him the man is off the wall and promoting heretical and gnostic teachings for example pushing the Book of Enoch I believe I posted my weblink on your blogsite.

    as for Kent Hodind who is in Prison since January 2007 and serving a ten-year prison sentence after being convicted of 58 federal counts, including 12 tax offenses, one count of obstructing federal agents, and 45 counts of structuring cash transactions

    Hovind is a KJV onlyist I don't really have dealings with him nor do I promote him anywhere on the website.

    then Arnold Fruchenbaum, I have exposed as an ecumenist and a compromiser long story in itself on this one (link removed) I cannot accept how he can make a binding covenant that was created by the WCC and fully justify his possition with the Luasanne Movement.

    Jacob Prasch, I have removed my audio archive with him on it….

    As for ACT featured on that website, ACT is just a list it is not an organisation but the people who are on it are independent from each other most of them will not speak to me and I am mainly on the outside, I do not have any participation or involvement with what the others do who are listed the only person to my knowledge who contacts me is James Sandquest who I was introduced to by William Sanders from Ephesians 5:11 blog, I solely remain independent from those who are listed within ACT we have had our major rows and disputes this is still unresolved, their is allot of issues going on and I cannot speak for ACT as the person who runs that is Sandy Simpson and you would need to speak with him, I wish Mijadedios you had contacted me as I have stipulated If you spot any link within this links page that is ecumenical, anti-Israel or in error please don't hesitate to let us know..

    I have removed sound doctrine from the links page as I cannot accept their promotion of Arnold Fruct as Dave is one of his greatest fans I have warned them in the past but they refused to accept the evidence I have shown them.
    For a long time I have had no contact with Don but you will not find me on there website as they do not promote me.

    This is why you should have contacted me and because you have not attempted to contact me and in saying this I feel you have not been open with me, as I would have given you an honest response also my name is Miguel not Michael why change my name in the writing and not in the image of the sound doctrine screen shot I find this inconsistent as some may do here, if you or anyone wants to contact me about the ACT issue I will also respond, I am not the type of person to ignore or evade these issues.

    For this reason I have removed the ACT Link and those who you have mentioned, I have removed the audio's of Jacob and Bill Randles

    i am sorry if posted quotations from you to expose missler offends you and if you wish I will remove that reference to you if you wish, the issue is not about as you rightly pointed out endorsing anyone nor should you the only person we should be promoting is Jesus Christ and the Bible itself.

    Please I would ask if you can correct this article.

    Miguel

    1. I have checked on you from the fist time you commented here on my blog. May 25, 2010: http://news4themasses.wordpress.com/purpose-driven-warning-signs/#comment-398

      I’ve contacted you in the past via YouTube and asked you frank forward questions to which I recall you did not answer. I made a note of it to myself and to William at Ephesians 5:11 at the time that my trust level with you was minimal. Since then I checked your blog and your YouTube.
      What I find interesting is that you did not “Correct” your blog and links roll or express your various disputes with others in the network until I posted this. You have obviously known for some time the information you had and chose to give the impression of being associated with those “names,” although you say reputation and such is nothing to you. Your link to Sound Doctrine pointed out that you say one thing on your blog and posts (inc. videos) and then endorse people of the same rank and file you claim to be exposing. This is my issue with many- all- of those on the list of ACT. You can “remove” yourself from their list? Why not do that long ago? They are autonomous and not a Network? Kind of like how Calvary Chapel is a non-denomination with no “affiliation” and they don’t have a pyramid scheme and a huge vast empire under the dove and some not so obvious under the dove so as to catch the people who try to escape. Sorry, I don’t believe that ACT is not more than what you claim. I said nothing of whether or not you are Calvinist or a promoter of it, but I’m glad you addressed that. You say you’re ostracized by Jacob Prasch, yet you have several Moriel websites that you link to. You also link to Mike Gendron, a compatriot of Chuck Missler and CC’s galore. You also link to John Higgins, Maranatha International, never mind that it’s a dead link and has been for years, but you still keep it. Yes, I’m still learning, as I discovered the Network I had to remove my links to Lighthouse Trails Research and to Roger Oakland’s UTT. I’m a lone blogger with no resources, I don’t endorse, I don’t sell audio’s, I don’t produce videos for others, I have no “Studio,” I do not circuit speak, or ghost write. I am very much aware that I have to be on top of my own blog and make corrections and I have. You on the other hand gave the illusion of being yoked with certain people and only removed those ties once someone like me brought them to the forefront, that’s highly suspicious. No, I didn’t think to contact you and give you a “heads” up. My blog is for my readers, once I saw that you did utilize my blog to site in your post I wanted to make sure INSTANTLY that my readers understand I do not work with you, I do not endorse who you endorse, and to me that was most important. You could have contacted me privately once you saw my post but you chose to leave comments in response to me on DTW, my YouTube account, and here. So, here we are and the air is cleared, you’ve said your piece, I have said mine.

      1. You cannot compare CC to ACT act is simply a list you had not been specific with me on youtube first plumbline net is not a blog, I will if I may cut down your message as to answer the point you had raised.

        I’ve contacted you in the past via YouTube and asked you frank forward questions to which I recall you did not answer. I made a note of it to myself and to William at Ephesians 5:11 at the time that my trust level with you was minimal. Since then I checked your blog and your YouTube.

        You had not contacted me in the past to my knowledge on the issues with regard to ACT on youtube or by e-mail, this I do not find you are telling the full story here, here is what you wrote to me on youtube

        mijadedios
        Re: thanks for your expose on Chuck Smith
        I didn’t see anything noteworthy under paul cain on this site you gave me.
        I have a question, why is your name ‘the gods’ plumbline? you use ‘gods’ small g and plural.

        thanks for the reply on Bill’s blog site.
        Sent to: thegodsplumbline

        I did answer you and stated that for some reason Youtube did not allow me to capitalize the nick and so I had not alternative but to use a small g.

        the last message was Re: thanks for your expose on Chuck Smith
        I saw this a long time ago. I tried to find stuff out on Paul Cain, to no avail seems the powers that be wiped off much of this mans history. Same old Wikipedia junk which says very little. Seems to be the same for papasmurf (Chuck Smith). He apparently served as a foursquare minister for 14 years but no record on which churches/where any record of his meanderings until he mystically appears with Lonnie Frisbee (and Chuck Missler and Hal Lindsay and Pat Matriciana and John Higgins) in the early days of CCCM. Funny how “History” seems to disappear or be rewritten (Paul Smith). huh. funny.
        Sent to: thegodsplumbline

        11/28/11

        This was in 2011 again their is no record of you asking me to correct information or anything in relation to Sound Doctrine I has categorically stated on the website not blog that just because we have links does not necessary mean this is a endorsement of those ministries…….

        What I find interesting is that you did not “Correct” your blog and links roll or express your various disputes with others in the network until I posted this. You have obviously known for some time the information you had and chose to give the impression of being associated with those “names,” although you say reputation and such is nothing to you.

        Reputation means nothing but the website not blog as this is what you visited is very clear “If you spot any link within this links page that is ecumenical, anti-Israel or in error please dont hesitate to let us know…”

        This you did not or those links would have been removed.

        “Your link to Sound Doctrine pointed out that you say one thing on your blog and posts (inc. videos) and then endorse people of the same rank and file you claim to be exposing. ”

        The link was not an endorsement of what they are promoting as stated on the website It’s very important that you clearly understand that the inclusion of any link from anywhere within the First Plumbline Apologetics web site does not necessarily imply our endorsement of that ministry, resource, or organization featured regarding anything that it does or teaches.

        I removed the link because you were the only one who brought the content of the sound doctrine website up I removed it because you had rightly pointed this out, I did not remove it previously because for the past 6 weeks or so I did not get around to updating the content, if this has caused you much confusion I apologies and can only ask that you forgive me for any discrepancy this has caused you, unless people point these things out to me we can not correct or improve the things we are working on because at current their is so much of it in the UK like I had explained you have not on this one issue brought this up.

        “This is my issue with many- all- of those on the list of ACT. You can “remove” yourself from their list? Why not do that long ago? They are autonomous and not a Network?”

        They ACT is simply an individual who put a list together it is John Hayworth’s name that is on their and it would be scriptural to approach him as he has not spoken or been invited to speak at any of the conferences even when Sandy listed him.

        Kind of like how Calvary Chapel is a non-denomination with no “affiliation” and they don’t have a pyramid scheme and a huge vast empire under the dove and some not so obvious under the dove so as to catch the people who try to escape.

        I have never been involved with or a member of CC infact I have protested one of their churches in 2008 where one of their pastors assaulted me because I opposed their ecumenical events

        Sorry, I don’t believe that ACT is not more than what you claim. I said nothing of whether or not you are Calvinist or a promoter of it, but I’m glad you addressed that.

        you said Quote “ACT (Apologetics Coordination Team). It is my belief that those who are members of the ACT are members of the “Network” of “False Discerners,”” ACT is not a network

        You say you’re ostracized by Jacob Prasch, yet you have several Moriel websites that you link to. You also link to Mike Gendron, a compatriot of Chuck Missler and CC’s galore.

        I do not Run ACT this is not my website nor have I claimed that website belongs to me, nor do I have a link to Mike Gendron’s website this is simply not true.

        You also link to John Higgins, Maranatha International, never mind that it’s a dead link and has been for years, but you still keep it. Yes, I’m still learning, as I discovered the Network

        This is true the link to In the Days Ministrys. (Maranatha International.) again this is not an endorsement of this ministry had some one pointed this out to us it would have been removed.

        I had to remove my links to Lighthouse Trails Research and to Roger Oakland’s UTT. I’m a lone blogger with no resources, I don’t endorse, I don’t sell audio’s, I don’t produce videos for others, I have no “Studio,” I do not circuit speak, or ghost write.

        Yes I too will not link to it as LTR as long as they keep on making allowances as I was also disturbed by what is going on, I believe these things will be exposed and will come to the surface.

        I am very much aware that I have to be on top of my own blog and make corrections and I have. You on the other hand gave the illusion of being yoked with certain people and only removed those ties once someone like me brought them to the forefront, that’s highly suspicious.

        To you this maybe the case, but had you contacted me prior this could have been resolved very quickly.

        No, I didn’t think to contact you and give you a “heads” up. My blog is for my readers, once I saw that you did utilize my blog to site in your post I wanted to make sure INSTANTLY that my readers understand I do not work with you

        Just because I had given short quotations to your work and full references does not imply you work with me nor is that an endorsement of your blog I will place a citation as not to cause any confusion, I found your work very good on these cases and thought it would be good as notable material nothing more.

        I do not endorse who you endorse, and to me that was most important. You could have contacted me privately once you saw my post but you chose to leave comments in response to me on DTW, my YouTube account, and here. So, here we are and the air is cleared, you’ve said your piece, I have said mine.

        I likewise feel that you could have contacted me rather then publicly write me off as you did as if I was in the same line as the people you speak out against who for the past 2 years I have no dealings with, but I did not take what you stated personally for me as long as we can communicate amicably as this would be right for us.

        For me on my part no offense was intended I thought I would finish by saying my peace and we can have closer on this.

        In Christ

        Miguel

      2. I never tried to contact you regarding your association with ACT, not would I have because I don’t trust any of the members, and they are a network. As for the rest of this comment I may reply later, I have a life to live.

      3. BTW I did not say it was Jacob who ostracized me I said their are those discernment ministries that have

    2. Miguel,

      Why on earth did you sign this petition?

      LCJE is part of Lausanne. Lausanne is ecumenical to the core.

      http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/06/but-lausanne-itself-is-ecumenical.html

      Do you realize [yet?] the errors that Prasch teaches?

      I know you were commenting on my blog, about LCJE, a long time ago but things got too weird, when I found this petition. I don’t have time to post on every little matter but it bothered me a long time ago. I remember thinking “What on earth?”

      http://lausannecje.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/concerning-ecumenism-the-people-speak/

      I do think in my case I wrote you back…I told you what I thought about Jacob Prasch’s teaching. I looked and checked for the email…it was dated 9/23/11. I do not think I had seen this petition I wrote about by then. I know we disagreed on aspects of Prasch’s teachings.

      http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-does-jacob-prasch-endorse-lausanne.html

      {seeing your coments}

      I know outside ministries we have no control over can link to our webpages etc.

      I know people simply cannot know things, maybe you didn’t read any of the warnings about Prasch or Jackie Alnor–[comments on her] on my blog.

      Maybe you didn’t know who else signed the petition….

      But I found the whole thing strange,

      it still makes no sense to for a petition to be written like that when LAUSANNE itself is ecumenical and LCJE itself is named as a SPECIAL COMMITTE of LAUSANNE.

      Do you see where I am going with this? I know not everyone has studied Lausanne or the “Network” to the same extent.

      With News4themasses article here, you need to really serious re access the ACT network , I did go check on your website and you said you have had participation with them even beyond someone just innocently getting their blog named on another website. My blog is listed on a couple of blogs I do not agree with. So I know that happens to people. I try to be fair.

      (link to First plumbline removed by N4TM)

      In my case, I can’t have anything to do with Calvary Chapel or it’s teachers or any other false ones. Even just based on Prasch’s false teachings and Hebrew Roots that is enough to run as far as you can. I know we are in a strange place now where it is hard to know who to trust but why are all the same names showing up in these “networks”, I see Gendron for instant popping up everywhere.

      Are you parting ways from these teachers:? Is that what I am reading in the above?

      I think it is good to be open to having someone correcting errors on their website.

      I think every discernment blogger out there who is sincere, should stick to the no 100% endorsements. [even if we may share info or links] Don’t join any “groups” and be careful of “petitions”. They may have more then one objective.

      I wonder why some of these teachers just do not warn directly against Lausanne. I tried to see if any had. Even there why should I believe a petition that has Calvary Chapel associated teachers on it like Jackie Alnor, when Alnor herself speaks at Calvary Chapel churches and Calvary Chapel has multiple links to Lausanne, and other associations in the World Christian movement?

      You see why some of this stuff doesn’t add up for me.

      I noticed something on the ACTs website too. Why do the same names keep popping up all over the place?

      http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/page4.html

      “hen you purchase the “Resource Tools – Emerging Church” CD for $5. plus s/h you will also receive a brand new free DVD called “The Emerging Church” that features Gary Gilley, Ray Yungen, Joanna Michaelson, Mike Oppenheimer and Sandy Simpson.”

      Ray Yungen has worked with Roger Oakland.

      Joanna Michaelson, is all over the place…

      etc. etc.

      http://www.apostasyalert.org/Links.htm

      Forgive me if I think the petition itself is FISHY, but yes that is where I am at with it.

      Isn’t Sandy Simpson [not a signer of the above petition] in with the present day Liebenzell Mission?

      They even show up in the Lausanne history books.

      http://www.ralphwinter.org/D/view.htm?id=143&part=4&section=3

      “Long before 1980, the Call of 1974 had been doing its work. In 1976 an article in Missiology, An International Journal , “1980 and That Certain Elite” described in great detail both the Call (see above under 1974) and the response to it. Max Warren, Secretary of the Church Missionary Society, indicated his interest and pledged cooperation (which happened even though he died before 1980). The Liebenzell Mission of Germany offered its facilities for the meeting.
      As to each person who signed it, I suppose God knows what they knew or didn’t know. ”

      I would behoove you and everyone else to research all of the Lausanne front groups and the GLOBAL CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT and the deep deception that entails. They got lots of ways to steer people wrong. Many people do not even discern the immensity of how they are joining the evangelical world together via a huge number of global groups and other involvements, under the WORLD CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT umbrella.

      1. Bible believer the Petition was signed http://lausannecje.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/concerning-ecumenism-the-people-speak/ by me simply not only is it ran and created by my brother but after much debate and difficulty he is getting these people to stand against the ecumenism that is in the LCJE you can contact him Salvador Hayworth here ; if you have concerns as for these teachers who you regard as False I have stated that any links on the website is not an endorsement you can believe it any other way if you wish.

        But I have removed those sites in question from the links section of the website.

        I have added links to Ephesians 5:11 blog on Roger and Missler to be clear.

        *Edited by N4TM, no links by Firstplumbline are to be considered an endorsement or by anyone who is connected to FP.

      2. As for the LCJE this is not separate from the Lausanne Movement this is another area i am researching and it is a big one as I want to do a proper job of this.

        As for dealing with Luasanne directly I have been stonewalled this is why i have been naming names even speaking out against Ariel on the LCJE petition as a way of exposing him on their.

        I will keep the pressure up on these groups.

      3. sorry links to the website (link Removed) again this is not an endorsement but I believe there are legitimate concerns that are not being addressed by Roger or Missler after my contact I have similar concerns…

      4. l’by me simply not only is it ran and created by my brother but after much debate and difficulty he is getting these people to stand against the ecumenism that is in the LCJE you can contact him Salvador Hayworth here ; if you have concerns as for these teachers who you regard as False ”

        Miguel,

        Does your brother know the true nature of Lausanne?

        Maybe he does not.

        Show him this blog article of mine…

        http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2010/06/lausanne-movement-bringing-evangelicals.html

        also I would suggest googling WORLD CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT.

        I am curious do you agree with me that Lausanne and the world Christian movement is being used for the one world religion?

        That is a basic, where I question the whole motive of a petition like that. I am trying to give grace as I know even figuring out the agenda of all these organizations some people have not. But seriously going to Lausanne to ask one of their sub groups NOT to be ecumenical is like me writing a petition to the Pope to give up the interfaith meetings.

        What do you or he expect to accomplish?

        Tell the brethern to FLEE out of their!

        Here is my PETITION…

        GET AWAY FROM LAUSANNE and all it’s related groups!

        Don’t go making requests they would never honor. Did you see the articles I wrote on the deceivers.They do not care. They have their agenda and will pursue it to the end. The children of the father of lies, well LIE.

        Yes not all my links on my website are endorsement.

        I am glad you are studying Missler via other link sources.

        You wrote:
        “As for the LCJE this is not separate from the Lausanne Movement this is another area i am researching and it is a big one as I want to do a proper job of this.”

        Come on how much more clear is it then LAUSANNE is in the name?

        Remember how I warn on my blog about how they want to suck everyone into the one world religion of the Antichrist, do you think they would leave Jews who have converted to Jesus Christ alone? No way, they have set up groups for them too to be deceived. This was their set up to bring in the Messianic Jewish organizations. I wrote RIGHT ON MY WEBSITE…

        “The blue circles are from me, I circled the part where it says right on the LCJE website, that they are a SPECIAL INTEREST COMMITTEE OF LAUSANNE.”

        I don’t think you have to research that one too long….

        http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/2012/06/but-lausanne-itself-is-ecumenical.html

        As for Fructembaum I am glad you realize his false teachings, but what about Prasch? What about Calvary Chapel and everything that has been exposed about it and it’s associated teachers? Why hasn’t Prasch for instant spoken out against Chuck Smith telling us that Catholics are Christians too some months ago? {if he has link here} That is one teacher I hope you can do a far more full investigation of. Do not get drawn down into his false teachings. I knew others deceived by him and he uses what on the surface appears to be great scholarship but is just another deception. When I warn about some of the subtle and deep deceptions they are intense. I hope you can re-examine many of the things being discussed here.

        http://galatiansfour.blogspot.com/search?q=Prasch

        I am glad you are reading the Roger Oakland and Chuck Missler articles.

        Warn your brother too who wrote this petition as to the true nature of Lausanne. Do you understand what I am telling you that Lausanne from the get-go was started by Billy Graham to serve for the one world religion and false unity of the antichrist?

        Surely this is something you need to inform your brother on.

  3. A correction from William

    William Saunders
    29 June, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    I just want to clarify something Miguel said.

    Miguel said above –

    “the only person to my knowledge who contacts me is James Sandquest who I was introduced to by William Sanders from Ephesians 5:11 blog”

    It was James Sundquist who contacted Miguel and myself at the same exact time in the same email string. I don’t know James Sundquist and had never received anything from James Sundquist prior to that email in August 2011.

    So I didn’t introduce James Sundquist to anybody, James Sundquist introduced himself through an email to Lighthouse Trails, Roger Oakland, and Miguel. That email was forwarded to me because I was the one who wrote the Jerry Boykin article for Roger Oakland that Miguel made a video about.

    Just wanted to clarify that.

    What I stated from about William was from memory.

  4. “I never tried to contact you regarding your association with ACT, not would I have because I don’t trust any of the members, and they are a network. As for the rest of this comment I may reply later, I have a life to live.”

    I can understand were your coming from, it would be not a very good thing to place are trust in any man, again I appreciate that you have taken the time to respond I do not believe nor do I want anyone to come to me in that sence but i have allways stud by that people should check everything.

    I stand by the Ezekiel 33 principle the fact you believed I was in error and you did not come to me or warn me, you by this admission did not do what a sister in Christ should have done, unless you have already decided that I am not a Christian and out side of Christ then by this you treat me as an unbeliever.

    M

    1. You know how to twist words. You also do a great job of holding on to emails and posting them publicly.
      You have an answer for everything. I did not come to you to warn you because I don’t consider you a friend or even an acquaintance. I have not made a judgement on whether or not you are a “brother.” I did not only believe you were in ERROR, I believe you are indisputably working with people whom I do NOT trust. I do not think posting a warning to my readers concerning you or ACT requires me to write you a dear john letter, but if you want one still consider my post that letter.

      1. This is a flase statement, ACT are a list as explained FPA are independent from those listed you can read into things but this page has proven 1) I am in error because of my supposed guilt by association 2) in this case you did not apply Ezekial 33 3) you did not bother to contact me 4) yes I keep a log of all e-mails for the reason that you threw in the accusation publicly written me off and so publicly I have no choice but to respond to you. 5) the website has been corrected 6) this page is false because you are using out dated info.

        at worse this is slander implying that Sound Doctrine has involvement with FPA that FPA promotes and supports the people listed.

        7) your the one twisting words and reading into things.

        If this does not stop I have no choice but to allow my 80,000 readers know as I have a right to defend myself also. as I have removed every reference to you from the website and so I am going to give you 30 days notice to either provide accurate information or remove this page if this does not happen you leave me no choice but to place a section under issues in the website bringing your integrity into question and your standard of practice, I have tried to reason with you and still you insist to falsely accuse me, and commit deformation of character, in case you read into this as a threat as this is not their will be no legal outcomes from this as I believe in the practice of 1 Corinthians 6, you have not applied in any case to act according to scripture found in Matthew 18:15-17.

        Go directly and privately to the brother or sister to discuss the problem.
        If he or she will not listen, take one or two witnesses.
        If he or she still refuses to listen, take the matter to the church leadership.
        If he or she still refuses to listen to the church, expel the offender from the fellowship of the church, in this you should have E-mailed John Hayworth

        You have not applied this principle and have acted in an ungracious manor this places your integrity as a Christian into question, Everything we say is now recorded, you have responded publicly so I will also respond back publicly as you are so keen to write me off publicly by applying your biblical practices.

        I have made every attempt to contact you privately if just in case you call me a liar I will post it here as you wanted to make my ERROR known with out applying Ezekiel 33,
        (This is Miguel Posting the one and only every attempt he made to contact me regarding my post and it was through youtube email):
        your article against me

        Hi I wrote a response to you to set thing straight I was insulted that you had not contacted me as I have no such e-mail from your in my inbox so that I could make corrections and remove links as I have done to the website, the sites that were on the links page I have no involvement with such as sound doctrine but thanks for pointing out they they have not removed Arial ministries reference on their web page I have exposed Arnold in my LCJE article.

        I have removed the references to being a ACT member as the light of what has happened in the background between Roger, William Saunders from the Ephesians 5:11 blog who has been in constant communication with me, I have only started publishing articles on Missler because for 6 weeks I have been dealing with issues on ecumenism in London.

        Old pages do need updating on the website and as for what sound doctrine places on their website is really nothing to do with me as I have no involvement with them.

        I placed their site on the links page because they offer free legal DVDs but if you check back all the corrections have been made but I am actually thankful in spite of what you did here that you wrote what you did as this helped me to deal with the FPA website were corrections needed to apply.

        I understand we are human beings and we make mistakes in our past as I have done and the Lord has forgiven me for but I know the Lord has humbled me lots of times as I believe their are times where you have made mistakes also this is where we need to function as the Body of Christ so that we can build one another up for the Lords word, FPA is not my ministry I don’t own it God does and what I do I know I am accountable to him for.

        I would ask in future if you have issues with me or FPA do contact me as I will always try to resolve any issues, I am not some big ministry or conference speaker I am also self funding and I do not accept donations or ask for fiances of anyone to help with the Lords work as God is capable of doing this himself, I do not depend on reputation as I have no care for that and I am ostracized even from Moriel affiliated churches.

        I have already been stabbed in the back by some of the decrement ministries in the past.

        in Christ

        Miguel
        Sent to: mijadedios

        06/29/12

        but I also seem to remember you being promoted on an ACT website

        The pot calling the kettle black ?????

        http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/churchgrowth.html

        (169) Woe by Andrea Ahnonemous, News 4 The Masses, August 25, 2009
        The Shift has Begun. The time for secrets and whispered alliances has become publicly known. The object of grievance for many who love Calvary Chapel and all that it once stood for has been affirmed. For all those who were called “Head Hunters, Heresy Sniffers, Contentious, and slanderers” they may now have some level of confirmation that their discernment wasn’t wrong, but a true child of God who has the “gift” of discernment takes no pleasure in seeing what was once ‘the warning’ come to pass. Many people who are in the camp that believe Rick Warren is doing a work of God think that all of us are simply fanatic and fearful to ‘change.’ No. I accept Change. What I do not accept is heresy, lies, and false teachers. I will start in the order of the men that are in the picture above.

        http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/newsletter20090908.htm

        For me the matter is resolved as I said if you fail to remove this article with in the next 30 days this will leave me no choice put to publicly refute you to my own readers.

        John, my self and others with in FPA will be praying for you.

        This is my last word on this blog to you no further messages on here will be responded

        Miguel

      2. I have read through Ezekiel 33 and I don’t see how that applies to you, or myself, or this situation. I do admit to not coming to you privately and it is because I do not trust you. I had my reservations about you and those of the ACT (“Team” ie, group) for some time. I attempted to warn my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord whom I do know and somewhat trust whom I’ve seen interact with you freely on other sites. I posted my article to warn my readers that I have no working relationship with you or any member of the ACT (“Team” ie group/ I call a Network). I appreciate that you cleaned up your site and removed the link to Sound Doctrine; that is a great turn of events, the motivation of which I will leave to others to determine and leave my own opinion out. It appears you also removed the link to “Maranatha International” which is John Higgins old site, this is a turn in the right direction, since John Higgins is devoted to CC and never warned his church about Chuck Smith yoking with Rick Warren or about Jesuit, General William Jerry Boykin. I checked your site today and still found mention of you working loosely with ACT and a link to ACT is still available to people on your about page. Maybe this will change in time I don’t know. Maybe you are an honest to goodness person who wants to warn people but has gotten tangled in their network of false discernment, I don’t know, I think the Lord will reveal this in time and it won’t be me who needs to say one way or the other. Your webiste has been corrected in regards to Sound Doctrine, this is true, although it came after my post, so in my opinion my post is not “false” or in “error.” Anyone can read through the comments to find that you changed it, they can go to your site to check for themselves that you did remove that link, so I will not be changing or removing my post. Prayerfully, the Spirit is working in all parties involved in this post and there will be fruit born out of it rather than strife and division. On your other charge that I was “promoted by an ACT website.” Indeed, I saw that a long time ago, DITC did post a link to my blog post entitled “WOE.” Woe was born out of my despair and frustration that not one BIG public Discernment Ministry addressed the issue of Rick Warren being at the Harvest Crusade 20th Anniversary in 2009 along side Chuck Smith. I waited for any other larger scale ministry to address this, all those who had previously addressed the Heresy of Rick Warren, however none of the cherished Discernment sites, reputable discernment sites that I had grown to trust at that time touched the matter. After I posted Woe, it was Deborah at Light House Trails who contacted me and asked if she could use it, link to it. I said yes. It has always been my policy that what I post is “for the masses” not limited to my inferior site. LHT posted it to their newsletter or something and that particular article caught on and was then picked up by others, one of which you rightly state as DITC. Not all people who link to my post contacted me for permission. Chris Lawson at CRN has also used it in an article as a reference, and he did not ask me for permission. I think you are confusing the matter, they linked to me, and at the time of the initial link of LHT I had no idea that the network they were in was filled with such double speak and fakery (referencing ACT as a whole and in general). After contacting LHT over Chuck Missler and asking why Chris Pinto was speaking with Chuck Missler, and why was Warren Smith speaking with Chuck Missler did they cut off all contact with me, which was minimal as it was. I don’t post emails to my blog, that’s just me. So, I’ve had experience with “contacting” people over my concerns and being shut down, shut out, and then those same people who utilized me lied about me to others. It’s not your fault that I’ve already learned my lesson the hard way not to trust certain people. I do apologize for assuming you would have done the same. But lo, we are here now and I still don’t trust you based on your public display and attack style comments and posting previously personal emails, all that goes into my personal mental file cabinet under: reasons to not trust you. If you feel led to hang me out in 30 days and take this further that is your prerogative. Also, since I have come to my suspicions about all those connected to ACT I have removed links (as to my knowledge unless there are some I missed) that link to LHT and UTT. Those were the last two sites I was holding out hope were not part of the mess, but indeed they have solidified their union together and have wronged one to many people so I cannot endorse their exposes or other information that at one time was vital to me and helped me out of CC. No one asked me to remove those links. My reply to DITC stands, that I will not remove my post or alter it. I stated my own opinion that “I” do not trust ACT (members) and yes on the site those with the ACT logo are referenced as members. I believe now we let the Holy Spirit work in the hearts and mind of the people and allow the brethren to discern the facts from the hype and prayerfully more people will discover that there is a vast network of people who speak with a fork tongued and are double minded (this is not an accusation to FPA- this is just a generalized statement).

  5. Miguel,

    Are you cutting ties with the ACT now?

    Did they just use your link on your website?

    I saw myself written on your website, that you had participated with them. Are you now departing from this group given this new information? You did say you are taking them down.

    We are responsible to heed warnings however we get them.

    There are a lot of these false groups that claim everyone is “independent”, that doesn’t really mean anything to me anymore. Want to know how many times I heard that?

    I know people can be drawn in, but are you thinking things about this group and it’s associated teachers and early history at least with one of them with Lausanne?

    I know it is hard out there to realize to what extent the ecumenical lies go, but they go deep. A lot of us brethern who have been shown things are truly going to be standing apart from any organized church or group unless God shows us or brings us a truly independent assembly with sincere born again people, more and more are knowing to separate from any of these groups. HINT if they use GLOBAL in the name for anything RUN. Avoid those involved with groups like Youth With a Mission and teaching at Calvary Chapels. Avoid those who teach false Hebrew Roots derived teachings {I know he says he is not Hebrews Roots but they are related} like Prasch.

    As for guilt by association, Ive had people mad at some of my links unless they are abusive, hey they can tell me things. I am open to new information and my own corrections. I may not always agree but there it is. Try not to give news4themasses a hard time over this.

    I have to admit I do not approach everyone as a Christian brother and sister. That is not what that bible verse means. LOL I had some tell me I was supposed to approach Chuck Smith that way before warning about him and the false teachings of Calvary Chapel. I think there is a line to be drawn with that stuff.

    If you are parting ways with ACT, then be happy someone warned you about them.

    If not, then well, why get angry at someone who may believe differently about the group. Obviously I am not a supporter given that the list has people who are members of groups I do not agree with, and Calvary Chapel associated teachers and teach doctrines I do not agree with.

    News4themasses and you are not in the same “church”

    I have to admit, I do not see Prasch or any of his followers as even being the “same religion”, now there could be some born again people who simply have not been shown the truth yet, that have gotten sucked into that net, hopefully temporarily, even I listened to some Prasch DVDs before before figuring him out but there again that Bible verse is for Christian brothers and sisters who are of one accord.

    You wrote: “I have removed the references to being a ACT member as the light of what has happened in the background between Roger, William Saunders from the Ephesians 5:11 blog who has been in constant communication with me”

    Are you leaving the group?

    Well keep studying, about things I have discussed, do not let anger at news4themasses upset you and keep you away from studying these matters. You are right we all make mistakes. I even had to remove LHT from my own blog once I found out things regarding that group. The way things are today, there are a lot of false discernment ministries out there and false teachers, we have to walk carefully and pray and if we learn something new, about a ministry or a teacher we have to deal with it, even if it is not easy.

    I know I never expected things to be the way they were even when I started my blog, with the ‘network” so inter-tangled. It has been awe-inspiring but also tells me how badly the church is fallen away as a whole and all the fallen away organizations that are helping lead down the road to perdition. Things are getting more difficult. What I care about is if someone is sincere and desiring God’s truth, sadly we are surrounded by so many who are INSINCERE, it is getting to be a complex business.

  6. Hey, I am a loner.

    I don’t endorse anyone and I don’t seek endorsements.

    I will communicate with anyone who wants to communicate with me but that doesn’t mean an endorsement on anyone.

    In the “Internet World” I have absolutely NO IDEA who any of these people are because I can’t examine their fruit. And the reverse is the same for them, they can’t observe/examine MY FRUIT.

    I at one time considered people I did personally know to be OK only to find out later they were no good, how can ANYONE examine anyone’s fruit in the Internet world unless the Lord does something through those people?

    I do know only two people (Internet people) the Lord has used in my life in His perfect timing and they are both female.

    Everyone else I communicate with is in a different category.

    I will not be rude to anyone who emails me, I will love them (Mark 12:31), I will be gentle to them (2 Tim 2:24), I will honor them (1 Pet 2:17), I will show meekness to them (Titus 3:2), but I can’t trust them (Jer 17:5) and they should be the same with me.

    We as Christians must ALL obey the word of God when dealing with people on the internet.

    If people want to share information with me that may be helpful I am very appreciative of that, however because of the nature of what I do, I must be “wise as a serpent”.

    People must understand this.

    It’s the very nature of dealing with people on the Internet.

  7. Wow!! Talk about eye opening. Your never too late too learn. Only recently,and in reseaarching Missler, have I come to understand another aspect of the apostasy. I departed the Fundy Baptist groups snout four years ago, and in searching for answers, the Holy Spirit has lead me step by step,and tonight I felt like a huge block fell into place. The post and all the comments had my undivided attention. This will take me weeks to sort thru,and investigate.

    I’ll just say thanks,and God bless.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s